I think the AI producers this year may have started to realize that promoting past AI alums can only help strengthen the brand going forward.

RemusL: I hope you’re right here. The fact (I think) that viewership was high during season 5, may play a factor in this as well. I wasn’t into AI until last year myself. Anyway, along the mystery lines I always love it when I’m surprised in the end (which doesn’t happen often), so I hope I’m surprised when it comes to my feelings about how TPTB will handle Kris. In spite of this however, he does have a way of peeking his head out and saying I’m still here (tm Kris, I think)! a la the RS interview.

i retract my earlier statement about kris vs. adam in the long run since they are not competing against each other but against the rest of the world blah blah but i still like the tortoise vs hare story

Oh, I actually like the tortoise vs hare story quite a lot too. The WhatNotToSing.com article analyzing how Kris won is basically subscribing to the same theory.

Personally, I think the biggest problem Taylor had is that he mostly loves older music. Loves loves loves it, loves performing it, is great performing it, mainly wants to write music that has a lot of echoes of older music.

If I recall, during his tenure as reigning AI, a lot of older artists/musicians loved jamming with him on stage while a young buck like JT publicly dissed him.

Then there is the telling coincidence of 19 employees such as Simon going on record to say how much Taylor and Kris are crappy winners. Simon once schooled Randy to not say something negative about a coronation single because they have to market it, so Simon well understands concept of how management needs to get behind their product (and Simon is a producer of the show and one of the showà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s products is the winner). I agree that Taylorà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t going to find a market, but 19 treating him as a joke winner certainly didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t improve his career.

Simon might be technically contracted to 19 but he’s no mere employee mouthpiece; he also their competitor. He says and does whatever he wants, and he obviously hates being shown up as wrong in any way. He may have agreed not to outwardly diss coronation songs but he’ll display his displeasure in other ways, like not standing up to congratulate the winner or disparaging him on radio/tv interviews after the fact.

I’m not exactly sure what 19 hoped to achieve by marginalizing Taylor before the dust had even settled on season 5. Questioning the legitimacy of his win only hurt the franchise’s credibility (what little there is) in the long run, as well as their own profit margin. I guess we’ll get an inkling of where Kris stands in their eyes by the placement of his picture during the upcoming auditions for season 9. I think the AI producers this year may have started to realize that promoting past AI alums can only help strengthen the brand going forward.

Hmm.

I don’t really think the problem for Taylor was liking “old” music, though lordy knows I might be wrong on all of this.

I think the problem is that they didn’t know what to do with Taylor, he didn’t quite know what to do with himself, and much of his cachet was built on his extremely fun and slightly outrageous performance style. If you go back and look at his vids from the show, he’s having a blast and so is the audience, and he still can work a crowd. But that never translated to recordings.

When his first post-AI album came out, the songs that he wrote on it from earlier days were praised by critics and the rest of it either got trashed or a meh reaction. The “disowning” of Taylor began in earnest round then, I think. And it dovetailed with a very active negative reaction to him by a fairly large contingent of critics/viewers who always hated him. I still have to explain to people why I actually liked the guy. He’s now spoken of as a mistake, which must hurt a lot.

Fact is, I wasn’t paying a whole lot of attention to Idol before Taylor. Viewership was high during his year, not just because of him but he certainly helped. And didn’t a whole bunch more blogs and fansites blossom during his year? Including this one?

Kris is really very different than Taylor, temperamentally and musically. TPTB may have been pimping like crazy for Adam and Danny, but I just have a feeling that Kris knows what he’s about and is going to deliver. He’s a cooler head, and a more defined artist.

And one thing I love about Kris is that his musical influences are broad — he loves great older stuff like the best of MJ and the Beatles and Motown, and current stuff too.

I think that’s a large part of the reason that they shoved him into the background — they didn’t see a big and growing audience for that music outside of Idol (maybe they were wrong, of course — who knows; I kind of suspect that they were right, though.) Anyway, that clearly makes Taylor into a niche artist. And there’s nothing at all wrong with that. He’s great at his niche. But Sony keeps wanting the big payoff, and you get that with people who are devoted to the current styles, so if you look to be a niche person (aside from the huge niches, pop country and dull-ass Nickelback-type rock) they just aren’t very interested.

When Kris — and Adam, actually — talk about their musical aspirations and influences, they talk about both past people and current people. They both listen to tons of current people. Neither one seems to want to recreate something. They truly want to do things that are them and that are new. Now, whether they succeed at that is another question, and whether what they create will actually interest a huge number of the current audience is still another question. But I can definitely see TPTB getting more firmly behind those dreams than they would ever get behind Taylor’s, who more or less declared himself a niche guy — and a retro guy, into the bargain — from the outset.

i have to wait for another one more year (and couple more years even..) to see who actually wins! serves me right for being an overinvested fan this yearà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

SarahP, why does it even have to be a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“raceà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  between Kris and Adam? If one sells more records than the other, does it mean the other has failed? Frankly, both of them have way more to contend with in the music industry than where they are relative to each other. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not sure some fans are seeing the bigger picture here.

i retract my earlier statement about kris vs. adam in the long run since they are not competing against each other but against the rest of the world blah blah but i still like the tortoise vs hare story :happy_tb:

As for Kris receiving the Taylor treatment, only time will tell if that will come to pass. In the early aftermath of season 5, Taylor had a great deal of publicity. It was only after his album came out and wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t well-received (even amongst a lot of Soul Patrollers) that he seemed to get less and less support from the label.

The “Tayloring” of Taylor started long before the albums dropped. Even before he’d recorded a note, 19 had decided to shuffle his picture for the audition back-drop out of the camera frame (when every other year winners have got one of the center positions) and auditions happen during the summer. The label also didn’t release a single before the album dropped (a normal industry practice) and one wouldn’t drop until 3 months later (despite the album going gold in two weeks). Then there is the telling coincidence of 19 employees such as Simon going on record to say how much Taylor and Kris are crappy winners. Simon once schooled Randy to not say something negative about a coronation single because they have to market it, so Simon well understands concept of how management needs to get behind their product (and Simon is a producer of the show and one of the show’s products is the winner). I agree that Taylor’s album wasn’t going to find a market, but 19 treating him as a joke winner certainly didn’t improve his career.

Maybe Kris will get positive treatment from 19, but if their story arc for the season is that of the “rightful winner and world superstar” who got “robbed”, that leaves Kris in the position of “fluke winner” or “thief”. If 19 decides that is the story they want to run with, I think Kris fans have to accept it because complaining never changes it (19 is an unmovable object. Look how they ignored fans pleas for less judging and more singing and gave us more judging and less singing). That doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t complain. People still complain about the weather even though they know that doesn’t achieve anything.

If a fan thinks that Kris will get the full pimp treatment (19 crowing about Kris being the rightful winner and making a big deal about him leading up to the new Idol season that coincides with the Idol album release season), I think that’s totally reasonable position to have as well. Anything can happen.

It’s always interesting to see how things unfold and I have fun looking for the ulterior motives (I love reading mysteries, so it’s an extra game for the season for me).

You are absolutely correct. There really isn’t anything that can be done promotion-wise until there is something to promote as there aren’t any hot button media issues with Kris. But, it doesn’t bode well that all indications currently point to Adam being the top priority. When they are consumed by promoting Adam, it doesn’t leave much for Kris when he needs it.

His signing with 19R/Jive was only just officially announced June 8th, 2 days ago. He’s done the New York media tour, including Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, he was featured prominently at the AI Experience in Walt Disney World, and he has sung the NA at an NBA finals game. Sounds like a pretty full promotional plate to me.

As for Kris receiving the Taylor treatment, only time will tell if that will come to pass. In the early aftermath of season 5, Taylor had a great deal of publicity. It was only after his album came out and wasn’t well-received (even amongst a lot of Soul Patrollers) that he seemed to get less and less support from the label.

In the end, it does all come down to the music.

i have to wait for another one more year (and couple more years even..) to see who actually wins! serves me right for being an overinvested fan this yearà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

SarahP, why does it even have to be a “race” between Kris and Adam? If one sells more records than the other, does it mean the other has failed? Frankly, both of them have way more to contend with in the music industry than where they are relative to each other. I’m not sure some fans are seeing the bigger picture here.

I have it from good sources that Taylor kinda screwed himself a little with that first album. He got very excited by all the bells and whistles available to him, and of course there was that rush rush rush thing.

colette, I fell in love with Taylor’s pre-Idol music (he had several songs available for free download at one point) but so far, none of his post-Idol material has been as good, imo.

LOL, donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t underestimate that tortoise. There is a lot of wisdom in this fable. Even if the hare initially overshadows the tortoise, the tortoise still wins in the end. I personally think the sideline peeps in this fable, stood back to see what would happenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦and them were amazed. The ultimate conclusion of this is patience is a virtueà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll see. Insanity peeps, need not apply. 1 yr. is ultimately not a long time. Okay, sorry, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m done. lol.

:tongue1_tb: awwww i have to wait for another one more year (and couple
more years even..) to see who actually wins! serves me right for being an overinvested fan this year…

nice article but as a big Kris fan, nothing is new there. except that he loves coldplay (who doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t!!!!!). during the show i really wanted Kris to win but was afraid that he (or anyone else) losing to Adam will get overshadowed with all the media frenzy surrounding Adam.

SarahP, I’m a big Kris fan as well (and for the record, also an Adam/Allison/Anoop fan). Perhaps I’m not as big a Kris fan as you because I hadn’t read/heard a lot of the musical influences stuff before. I knew he was a Jacko and Boyz II Men fan but those details he revealed in this EW article were news to me.

As for Adam overshadowing him, well, frankly the media spotlight on Adam is still only a small portion of the entertainment news scene. Even without Adam’s RS cover story, Kris and the other Idols would still have to fight for a slice of the media pie with the established stars. If anything, Adam’s RS story actually brings some attention back to Kris, with the “attractive” and “distracting” roommate anecdote.

I guess in some cases (Carrie, Cookie, and of course Kelly — the “kuh” sounds — so maybe Kris too??) it works out through the rush. It seems to me that happens when the artist’s style is very defined, as it was with the above.

Adam could have a tougher time nailing it down. And I think Kris knows just who he is musically.

But though it’s totally out of my hands (or as Brett Dennen sings, “Darling do not fear what you don’t really know’), I’d love to see TPTB on these records not gum them up with a lot of crappy, committee-written songs and overdubbing, etc. Simple and soulful for Kris, that’s my bid.

ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m only worried that todayà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s music business is pretty action packed and fast paced with OTT people getting all the glory from Katy Perry to Lady Gaga to even creatures like Soulja boy so ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m worried that the tortoise can definitely get overshadowed by the hare

LOL, don’t underestimate that tortoise. There is a lot of wisdom in this fable. Even if the hare initially overshadows the tortoise, the tortoise still wins in the end. I personally think the sideline peeps in this fable, stood back to see what would happen…and them were amazed. The ultimate conclusion of this is patience is a virtue…we’ll see. Insanity peeps, need not apply. 1 yr. is ultimately not a long time. Okay, sorry, I’m done. lol.

I just edited some off-topic posts.

If you are new here, and haven’t read my guidelines, I suggest you do.

http://mjsbigblog.com/?page_id=1172

Complaining about about negative posts is absolutely off-topic. If you are uncomfortable reading criticisms of your favorite, I suggest you stop reading. You may want to stick with your fan forum. My blog is not a fan site.

Also offtopic are discussions of what posters are posting in other blog threads. Please stick to the topic of the post.l

http://music-mix.ew.com/2009/06/kris-allen-on-loving-jacko-learning-the-viola-and-being-a-heartthrob.html

Kris Allen on loving Jacko, learning the viola, and being a heartthrob

nice article but as a big Kris fan, nothing is new there. except that he loves coldplay (who doesn’t!!!!!). during the show i really wanted Kris to win but was afraid that he (or anyone else) losing to Adam will get overshadowed with all the media frenzy surrounding Adam. so now a few weeks have past and come to think of it, its pleasantly surprising a lot of articles do acknowledge Kris’s talent, and that he didn’t “rob” Adam of the AI title. and the Idolatry video totally focussing on his music was super! so i have my hope restored!

I keep thinking of Aesopà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Fable The Tortoise and the Hare. Slow and steady wins the race. This is where my hope lies for Krisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s career.

i’m only worried that today’s music business is pretty action packed and fast paced with OTT people getting all the glory from Katy Perry to Lady Gaga to even creatures like Soulja boy so i’m worried that the tortoise can definitely get overshadowed by the hare

I am not happy at all if Kris gets the Taylor Hicks treatment, but I have came to the conclusion that there really is not much I can do about it besides support Kris as much as I can through purchasing anything that he releases.

Exactly. You aren’t going to get the label/19 to change their ways. I remember, the Kat fans sent Kit Kats to Clive to try to get him to do something or other. I think he just ate them. Or gave them out as bonuses to the staff or something. Whatever, he didn’t do what they wanted.

Yep, he just keeps plugging away and defying expectations. I think he is current and I think Jive is smart, so maybe he’ll pull it off. Even if all this fails, with iTunes, the barrier to entry is small and maybe he can release his own music later. Bo’s independent second CD was much truer to himself. And, we’ll always have “Heartless” (well, and a bunch of other songs, but “Heartless” fits in with “Paris” better).

I keep thinking of Aesop’s Fable The Tortoise and the Hare. Slow and steady wins the race. This is where my hope lies for Kris’s career. We’ll see. I want to remain positive. I’m trying so very hard not to put down any other finalist in the process.

ETA: jmom376, yay! Kirsten, lol at “Heartless”/Paris.

I remember hearing in an interview Adam had said he will be doing some new stuff on the AI tour which I am assuming will be stuff from his upcoming album. I wonder if Kris will be doing the same. Has anyone heard Kris comment on this?

BTW: I am not happy at all if Kris gets the Taylor Hicks treatment, but I have came to the conclusion that there really is not much I can do about it besides support Kris as much as I can through purchasing anything that he releases. I am also trying not to respond to all of the negative comments out on Kris’s press releases, but it is not easy. However, I don’t think stooping to their level will prove anything.

I too have feared that Kris would receive the Taylor Hicks treatment. However, I have a lot of hope in Kris, yet again, being the quiet storm when it comes to the album. jmom376, I truly believe he is a gem.

I also believe if for some reason they are just throwing things at him (I don’t want to try to read 19’s mind), that he will make it his own and it will be amazing! You can’t keep a good man down!

Having said this, Adam may also make an amazing record and I’m sure Allison will too. I can say for myself, that I will definitely buy Kris’s, probably buy Allison’s and perhaps download some of Adam’s.

Well, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m glad somebody is OK with it; because, as a fan of him and his music, I am not OK with him being treated like Hicks 2.0.

But, if 19 does decide to treat Kris like Hicks 2.0, there is nothing the fans could do. If fans could effect change, the Soul Patrol would have done that back in S5/S6. Outrage will get fans nowhere but a ticket to “crazy-fanville”.

It doesnt seem that they wanted Kris to win. They have their marketing plans in place well before the confetti falls. So, I think fans need to set realistic expectations for the support Kris will get. Due to tradition, he will get invited onto all the talk shows, etc, when he releases his album, so that’s a help. If he gets a single released before his album, that’s a victory. If his picture in the AI backdrop isn’t outside the frame of the camera and obscured by a plant, that’s a victory. If at least one person associated with the show doesn’t go on all the talk shows saying his win wasn’t a complete travesty, that’s a victory. If he gets invited to sing back on the show, that’s a vicotry. If you set low expectations, you will be happy, not bitter, with what happens. LOL. And this show is meant to be entertainment, so I recommend that to maximize positive entertainment, expect the worst and be pleased with the good stuff. It’s all part of AI and the record business. No matter what happens, Kris will be MUCH better off than when he started this process. At least you get an album!

Jive is pretty good. Hopefully, they will put out a good album and get Kris some attention on radio. 19 doesn’t seem to hate Kris, so that’s a plus.

Kris fan here tooà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ I completely expected it to be this way, but am ok with it now. I am happily listening to his music and watching his idolatry videos while I am waiting. My only expectations of Kris is to create lots of Kick Awesome music that I can purchase. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t need all of the other stuff like magazine covers and such. As long as his team promotes him when his music comes out and he actually gets radio play, I am fine.

Well, I’m glad somebody is OK with it; because, as a fan of him and his music, I am not OK with him being treated like Hicks 2.0. No, he isn’t gay, doesn’t do any drugs (that I know of), doesn’t wear makeup and doesn’t go looking for attention. And, for that, his team is not promoting him? OK then.