Assuming you’re correct, Kirsten, that the “singles” are returned the week the album is sold, my guess is that approximately 16,000 albums were pre-ordered during the week of 10/26. Let’s assume that without the pre-order event, sales would have fallen somewhere between the 15,000 of the week before and the 19,000 of the week after, or at around 17,000. That means an additional 16,000 advance “singles” that were part of albums pre-orders were “sold” that week. Then during the week of 11/23, the “singles” were returned and deducted from the total number of independent singles sold that week. Thus, the week the album dropped, the true number of singles sold might have been around 27,000, but it only registered as 11,000 due to the deduction of 16,000 “singles.”

This would actually explain why there was confusion in the comment thread back then because people thought the 11,000 number didn’t coincide with the song’s placement on the iTunes charts that week which was higher than it had been in prior weeks. If chart rank was based on 27,000 in sales instead of 11,000, well, that might explain it.

A couple of points. First, if this is correct, we’re only talking about 16,000 in album pre-orders, not some huge number. It’s also my belief that a substantial portion of the folks who purchased LO on 10/5 were part of David’s hardcore fan group (because I don’t believe the song had received much airplay). And I’d wager the vast majority of those fans turned around and bought the album during the week of 11/23, the first week it was available. Thus, a lot of folks out there ended up paying for two copies of LO and David’s singles sales numbers reflect that fact.

That was NOT the case with Adam’s single. The first time it was available, it was available as an immediate download as part of an album sale. Assuming Adam’s hardcore fans are like David’s and want the album as well as the single, why not just buy the album immediately? I think that’s what they did and, of course, we have no idea what those album sales numbers are (I assume we’ll learn them later). (Note: I’m sure a few Adam fans bought duplicate copies as well, but I don’t think it was a significant number in comparison.)

Bottom line: to me, the first week sales of LO and fye are simply not comparable. At all. Again, I don’t want to diminish David’s accomplishments. His first week’s album total of almost 280K was amazing (given the economy and declining album sales) and I seriously don’t believe Adam (or Kris) will come close to that number.

Kris’ peeps just don’t get it!

I remember when it was announced that Adam was performing on the AMAs many kris fans said that if asked to present Kris should tell them to go to hell because it was a slap in the face that Adam was asked to perform and Kris wasn’t.

What changed? just wondering.

I guess those Kris fans conveniently forgot about it.

Kirsten
11/13/2009 at 8:52 am

Week 4: Album released:
100,000 Complete my Albums Sold in addition to the pre-orders
100,000 new Albums Sold
50,000 new Singles Sold
Here is where the Math gets tricky:
Albums Reported as Sold By Soundscan:320,000
Singles Reported as Sold that week by Soundscan: -170,000
Total Singles Sold in 4 weeks: 130,000

Okay, here’s what I see based on mjs’s archives of digital downloads for LO:

Sales w/e// weekly #’s// cum. totals

10/5 109,035 109,035
10/12 30,966 140,001
10/19 15,083 155,084
10/26* 33,598 188,682
11/2 19,469 208,151
11/9 18K 226K
11/16 21,127 247,367
11/23** 11,286 258,653
11/30 20,300 278,953

* This represents the first week you could pre-order David’s album and when you did, you received an automatic download of LO. The singles numbers actually increased by 123% from the week before.

** This was the week that David’s album went for sale. At the time people questioned the low number for LO singles (11,000) but the fact is 279,578 albums were SOLD that week. It’s really not surprising that a fair number of people who liked LO would just decide to go ahead and buy the entire album.

I add up the numbers and I just don’t see huge complete-my-album numbers being backed out of the singles cumulative totals like you suggest above. I don’t claim to be an expert, but your explanation or theory just doesn’t make sense based on the numbers that have been reported.

Kristen can correct me if I’m wrong but the way I remember it was when you completed your album with iTunes the single was taken away from the total single sales.

Correct

I don’t think that’s true. According to mjs Idol Sales News blog entry dated 10/05/08, David Cook’s first week sales of his single LO were 109,035. That’s the number that was first reported and that’s the number we’re still quoting, so it would seem no reductions were made 3 weeks later when the album first became available on iTunes.

I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

Let’s give an example:

Week 1: 100,000 singles sold Total: 100,000

Week 2: 50,000 singles sold Total: 150,000

Week 3: Album Pre-order with advance single given: 120,00
Singles sold independednt of pre-order 30, 000
Singles sold that week: 150,000
Total Singles Sold for three weeks: 300,000

Week 4: Album released:
100,000 Complete my Albums Sold in addition to the pre-orders
100,000 new Albums Sold
50,000 new Singles Sold
Here is where the Math gets tricky:
Albums Reported as Sold By Soundscan:320,000
Singles Reported as Sold that week by Soundscan: -170,000
Total Singles Sold in 4 weeks: 130,000

The first week totals do not change. The numbers start getting deducted the week the albums are sold. The singles are “returned” during those weeks and the sales can and sometimes do go negative for that first week of album sales. Think of them as physical returns and purchases and it all makes sense.

What changed? just wondering

Nothing. It was largely the Adam fans who felt that Kris shouldn’t show. The Kris fans still wanted him to go. And no fan base is homogeneous.

What changed? just wondering.

How is having the American Idol present and having the runner up perform not a slap in the face all by itself?

Especially when you consider Adam isn’t the only AI performer. They are billing it as the BIGGEST names from American Idol all performing on the AMAs. Kris is the current winner so one would assume that HE would be the current biggest name from Idol.

I seriously doubt that Kris Allen will be introducing Adam Lambert’s performance because I seriously doubt tptb (yep Kris and Adam have the same management) would want that for either of them. There would be all sorts of implications were that to happen, implications I seriously doubt they want to hear.

Seriously, I don’t watch many awards shows at all and haven’t watched one since the advent of instant internet satisfaction. I get what I want out of them on the internet the next day. I just have a difficult time sitting through all the thank yous. I’m interested in who won awards, what people wore (if newsworthy), and maybe a performance or two here and there. What I’m totally uninterested in is spending 3 hours listening to people thanking people who’s names I can’t pronounce and who mean absolutely nothing to me in the grand scheme of things…not to mention the commercials.

David Cook is MY American Idol. I didn’t watch the AMA’s last year. Why would I even this year?

Speaking of David Cook, I have to admit that the USAT tweet had me scratching my head. I couldn’t figure out who it was if not USTA (having to do with tennis). Yeah so I went to twitter and put their name in. The first word on their profile that stood out to me was brevity. LMAO I just knew they were a Cooktard (just like me) when I saw that. Too funny that they are USA Today News…brevity (however you define it) FTMFW!

I don’t think that’s true. According to mjs Idol Sales News blog entry dated 10/05/08, David Cook’s first week sales of his single LO were 109,035. That’s the number that was first reported and that’s the number we’re still quoting, so it would seem no reductions were made 3 weeks later when the album first became available on iTunes. And it’s not so much angst as it is just trying to be as accurate as possible.

My understanding is that the deductions to the singles totals aren’t done retroactively, so Cook’s first week’s singles sales are never touched again. The point at which Soundscan deducts the previously downloaded singles sales from the singles totals is the week the album is completed via iTunes (makes sense because that’s when the singles download is actually confirmed to be part of an album purchase as opposed to just a standalone single purchase). I believe we got confirmation of this practice when Taylor Swift’s Fearless album came out and one (or more) of her singles actually sold negative that week because she had such huge album download numbers. In other words, during the week of her album release, one of her singles didn’t have enough standalone single purchases to counteract the effect of massive “returns” of the same single due to the “complete album” feature.

I know that the blatant favoritism also annoys a lot of ppl and I rightly so’ ¦I know that when I see an artist that I dont like getting excessive media attention (i.e. Taylor Swift: pretty and sweet but mediocre singer) it DOES bother me and its not a jealousy thing its more of a ‘geez can you give somebody else a chance’ type-thing.
Not tryint to preach cuz in the end everyone has their own opinion, just giving my take on the matter.

Hi guys. I’m coming late to this discussion also and I haven’t read the whole thread … but I’m sure that our opinions on this matter don’t actually count … at all … anymore. The wounded pride of singers and their fans doesn’t count. Promotion isn’t called pimping or favoritism and fairness hasn’t got anything to do with anything. It’s not about making good TV and … the only thing that matters is … which artist can make more money and provide investors with a better return on their dollar. Our only vote as of now … is buy/don’t buy … for him or her or them. Cash and all major credit cards are accepted.

Sorry but I don’t think the AI WINNER should introduce the RUNNER UP!

Well Im really late to the party but Id like to weigh in. First off, the competition is over and I think both Kris and Adam want to move on with their careers. Second the peeps from the AMA’s dont seem too concerned over who won or who didnt and arent obligated to privilege one idol over the over because of how they placed on the show; there is no connection (contractual or otherwise) b/t Idol and the AMA’s as far as I know…the entertainment industry can be quite unpredictable in more ways than one and things dont always work the way we want them to guys.
Not even the respective record companies associated with AI seemed concerned with who came in ahead of who because if they had been, Allison would not have been signed before Danny.
I and a lot of other fans wanted Adam to win the title because we thought he deserved it based on his talent and his performances.
It didnt happen.
A lot of you want Kris to be more in the spotlight and think he automatically has the right to perform because he is the winner. Doesn’t have to happen either.
Its his management’s job to get him those gigs, not the AMA peeps.
I do however understand that stuff like this (Adam getting to perform and Kris getting to present) can in some way discredit or perhaps diminish Idol and I think that concern is genuine among AI fans but given the media’s response to Adam and the overwhelming support he is receiving I think its pretty clear where they stand in all of this.
Truth be told I am very happy he is being given all of these opportunities but I know that the blatant favoritism also annoys a lot of ppl and I rightly so…I know that when I see an artist that I dont like getting excessive media attention (i.e. Taylor Swift: pretty and sweet but mediocre singer) it DOES bother me and its not a jealousy thing its more of a ‘geez can you give somebody else a chance’ type-thing.
Not tryint to preach cuz in the end everyone has their own opinion, just giving my take on the matter.

ksgirlfordc
11/12/2009 at 7:48 pm

Kristen can correct me if I’m wrong but the way I remember it was when you completed your album with iTunes the single was taken away from the total single sales. This just happened 3 weeks later in LO’s case instead of immediately as with FYE on AO. I think the angst about the AO single sales is for nothing. When you complete an album no matter when the single was purchased, it is removed from the single sales total.

I don’t think that’s true. According to mjs Idol Sales News blog entry dated 10/05/08, David Cook’s first week sales of his single LO were 109,035. That’s the number that was first reported and that’s the number we’re still quoting, so it would seem no reductions were made 3 weeks later when the album first became available on iTunes. And it’s not so much angst as it is just trying to be as accurate as possible.

You can check here: http://mjsbigblog.com/idol-sales-news-week-ending-100508.htm

Of course, the fans will always compare.

If this is true, it looks like Mr. Allen will be getting PAID for his work. Depending on the structure of the deal, he could receive 50 ‘“ 75% split of the royalties. It also brings into focus why it seems 19E/Jive is pushing the release of songs that Kris has no hand in writing, LLWD, WAOMF & The Truth.

RCA did the same thing with Cookie. LO & CBTM were written by others. All the other songs on the record were written or co-written by Cookie.

And does Kris own his own publishing rights or something? I’m looking on the song credits and several of them say ‘published by Kris Allen Publishing’ 

If this is true, it looks like Mr. Allen will be getting PAID for his work. Depending on the structure of the deal, he could receive 50 – 75% split of the royalties. It also brings into focus why it seems 19E/Jive is pushing the release of songs that Kris has no hand in writing, LLWD, WAOMF & The Truth.

My point is I don’t care if AL is performing and KA is presenting. I just don’t want Kris to introduce Adam because I can see the media crap after that happens. I too am tired of the comparisons but it always happens and always will as long as there is an AI.

Okay. That makes sense and I agree. I was responding more to the idea that just having Kris being a “mere” presenter and Adam a performer was a slap in the face to Kris and implied he wasn’t judged *worthy* as an AI winner or something. I think that’s just silly. No harm meant bb.

Because the competition is over and it’s not necessary to scrutinize everything to see how it portrays Kris and Adam relative to one another.

Sorry but you’re wrong. There are always comparisons because of AI.
DC is compared to every other winner as well as Daughtry and Archie. Why do you think AL & KA should be any different.

I said I didn’t think it was necessary, not that it doesn’t happen every year. I’m just tired of it at this point. I think it goes beyond just critical analysis into some sort of weird one-upmanship game.

Because the competition is over and it’s not necessary to scrutinize everything to see how it portrays Kris and Adam relative to one another.

Sorry but you’re wrong. There are always comparisons because of AI.
DC is compared to every other winner as well as Daughtry and Archie. Why do you think AL & KA should be any different.

How is having the American Idol present and having the runner up perform not a slap in the face all by itself?

Because the competition is over and it’s not necessary to scrutinize everything to see how it portrays Kris and Adam relative to one another.

This is a music industry event with artists from all areas of the music community not AI.

But yeah for the AI alums being represented! Performers include Lambert, Underwood, Daughtry and Clarkson.

How is having the American Idol present and having the runner up perform not a slap in the face all by itself?

This is a music industry event with artists from all areas of the music community not AI. What one does or doesn’t do has no bearing on the other. They both have their own paths to follow.

Are the AMAs on ABC? Is that where the promo was’“during Flash (Adam is Silent!Man) Forward? I taped it but haven’t watched it yet. I was crying while I watched Glee from last night (best ep of the season, IMO).

Hey, there! Yes, on ABC, and the AMA promo I saw was during Flashforward, I think the first or second commercial break (probably second).

I am so going to see 2012 this weekend. I am totally stoked. My friend laughed at me vis a vis Adam’s video, but we are SO STAYING FOR THE CREDITS.

Are the AMAs on ABC? Is that where the promo was–during Flash (Adam is Silent!Man) Forward? I taped it but haven’t watched it yet. I was crying while I watched Glee from last night (best ep of the season, IMO).

Oh, lordy, if TfM got nominated for an Oscar…be still my heart…or don’t be…please let it be so. ADAM SINGING TfM AT THE OSCARS in his emo hair and Dickens scarf. *sighing in content*

I wonder what Kris will present? Likely a category where another idol is a nominee?

Not necessarily. I can’t remember all the things previous winners presented, but off the top of my head I remember when Taylor presented it was the award for favorite soul/R&B group, no Idols nominated and DC introduced Taylor Swifts performance.

Oh, and just saw an AMA promo tonight showing Lady Gaga first, followed by Adam Lambert (they showed a scene from the TFM vid)! I was so happy for him – to be shown right after Gaga like that! Yea! And Yea for Kris presenting!