David Cook on entertainment tonight is on youtube now.

Search à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“David Cook on entertaiment tonightà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , you à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹ll find it.

YAY!!!!! Whew, that was awesome!!! Thanks for posting! :tongue1_tb:

The ad comes across as desperate, for lack of a better word, with its immediacy following the previous ad and three exclamation marks!!! Are we supposed to believe LO lacks promotion? How much more promotion does it need?

Angry, baiting posts will get your posts placed into moderation. Check back, I editing one of your earlier posts. This isn’t IDF or the scary boards. Read my guidelines before you post here again:

http://mjsbigblog.com/?page_id=1172

Search “David Cook on entertaiment tonight”, you ‘ll find it.

About DA’s fan sites, there are so many out there all over the place. Jive better hurry up with making his myspace look decent. When will his official site be ready?

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see how LO can be considered an incredible success considering Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s own sales records. He used to have 11 songs in the Hot100 but now his highly anticipated first single struggles to make top 20. He used to top digital downloads but now only sells 109K for its first week, even after much à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“desperateà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  promotion as some have commented.

Only 109K? :blink_tb: I’d say that’s a pretty successful opening week under the circumstances.

if it wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t for AI and the competitive expectations, everyone would already consider LO an incredible success for a newcomer.

I don’t see how LO can be considered an incredible success considering Cook’s own sales records. He used to have 11 songs in the Hot100 but now his highly anticipated first single struggles to make top 20. He used to top digital downloads but now only sells 109K for its first week, even after much “desperate” promotion as some have commented.

RCA put up a second ad (http://mediabase.com/WebLogon/WebLogon.asp) only one week after the first ad was taken down. The ad comes across as desperate, for lack of a better word, with its immediacy following the previous ad and three exclamation marks!!! Are we supposed to believe LO lacks promotion? How much more promotion does it need?

I just want to say that I’m a fairly “typical” person and the way I am generally introduced to a song is on the radio, not online. Perhaps listening to music and discovering new music online is something that will happen more in the future so perhaps RCA wanted to “test the waters” so to speak, and see what kind of effect this would have on LO.

I have seen links here on mj’s to articles mentioning how the music industry is changing. Rob Cavello seems to me, to be a forward looking person.

I also want to mention that even though TOML did not have radio play and sold well, it was introduced to a HUGE viewing audience the night of the finale.

Sooo…..While I don’t want to compare DC and DA’s careers, I do want to consider the various approaches to the promotions for their singles/albums when looking at why one may seem to be doing better than the other.

To me these comparisons are explanations, not excuses.

I regularly visit about 5 websites, but there are tons of various websites and people are spread out all over. I don’t know about Cook’s sites, but many of the DA fansites seem to work with each other. The fans go to many sites and report in their comments about something they saw on another site. People seem to be fine with it, as long as people give credit to where the comments or info came from.

The two sites I mentioned above tend to be older 20 fans (averaging in the 30’s-40’s I think), while most of the posters on the AI forum and some others tend to be tweens and teens. Anyway, they all seem to work on many of the same goals and cooperate, but they cater to different demographics.

Tigervixxen- I totally agree, and if it wasn’t for AI and the competitive expectations, everyone would already consider LO an incredible success for a newcomer.

The way I look at it its ok if Crush is a bigger hit than Light On. David doesn’t have to beat Archie in every single statistic to validate his win, does he? If David is supposed to be such a “different” Idol winner then its ok if his path is atypical. A lot about what we are talking about is in reference to playing the pop/Top40/commerical game and so far LO is doing ok, well see if it really takes off like many of us hope it does. But at the end of the day does David have to be considered a huge commerical success to be considered a success? I know he’s going to need some commercial viability in order to make money and justify a second album. But if Archie is more commercial of the two does that automatically make David C the loser?

I simply wanted to point out that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  numbers are good in any week. People keep saying that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  was up against weak competition. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s making an assumption as well. Was the competition à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“weakà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  or was à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  just that strong? We canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t state definitively. Rihannaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Disturbiaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is a 900 pound gorilla. I think it could go mano-to-mano with Pinkà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“So Whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  if they debuted in the same week (respective number twos both weeks we are discussing). Again, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not like à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  was topping the January album charts where many argue that is an easy feat to do (you wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get that argument from me, though, because I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s still hard to do because you are working in a slumping market as well).

I agree with you Kirsten. I mean, as far as hit singles go, Disturbia is a beast. Definately not what I would call “weak” competition.

And Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll say for the 20th time, if RCA was so set on helping sales they would have sent a MySpace bulletin out.

I hear this argument a lot. Cook has 120k myspace friends? How many people have bought either TOML or any idol song? Millions of them. Let’s cut the number by half since some people make sure they check off the spam mail box when registering for iTunes and Amazon. You still get millions of people receiving the email (I got one). The 120k friends very well may be included in the emails already because they very well may already bought TOML.

If everyone who bought TOML or an idol song/album get an email, there should be enough buyers to boost the sales way up.

Except not everyone got this e-mail from iTunes or Amazon. I know some did and I have no idea how they determined who to send them to, but myself or anyone I know didn’t get it an e-mail from either – so no not every single person who bought TOML got an e-mail encouraging them to boost sales. And I’ll say for the 20th time, if RCA was so set on helping sales they would have sent a MySpace bulletin out.

I’m not making excuses but in terms of airplay where I am (live in New Jersey work in NYC) I’ve yet to hear Light On on the radio yet when Crush went on sale I was hearing it often. For fans that don’t go on-line and see Google ads that makes a huge difference not just actual audience numbers.

LO get much more promotion online and should more than make up for the loss in audience impression. If everyone who bought TOML or an idol song/album get an email, there should be enough buyers to boost the sales way up. Maybe it is just me, but Cook’s ad is everywhere I go. I click on the ads and they lead to either album pre-order or iTunes for the single. It is strange that the single is still at #52 with so much promotion. Archie has a fansite, Archie has weaker competition, Archie was #1 for one week…all the factors may influence sales, but not much.

edit: Watch the way you talk to your fellow posters, respect their opinions, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START FAN WARS.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m just trying to explain why people keep raising the issue of competition as a factor. I still think that trying to compare LO to Crush is a moot issue.

As do I. And, this road has been traveled endlessly. :laugh_tb: I’m like, “David, shave your head, smash a beer bottle, kick someone’s tire…anything. Just give us something else to talk about!”

I guess it happens every season, though….

So I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think it is accurate to assume that Christinaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s numbers would not have been higher any other week or Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s numbers would not have been lower this past week.

Totally, that is why I put all those disclaimers on it. I’m not assuming anything. In the entertainment biz, there are so many extraneous factors, it is impossible to make a definitive comparison between any two endeavours.

I simply wanted to point out that “Crush” numbers are good in any week. People keep saying that “Crush” was up against weak competition. That’s making an assumption as well. Was the competition “weak” or was “Crush” just that strong? We can’t state definitively. Rihanna’s “Disturbia” is a 900 pound gorilla. I think it could go mano-to-mano with Pink’s “So What” if they debuted in the same week (respective number twos both weeks we are discussing). Again, it’s not like “Crush” was topping the January album charts where many argue that is an easy feat to do (you won’t get that argument from me, though, because I think it’s still hard to do because you are working in a slumping market as well). That was a decent iTunes week and “Crush’s” numbers were good in any week. Might not have been number one, but it wouldn’t have been 193rd either. How did it sell those numbers? Well, there are so many variables involved, that I think it’s hard to state that definitively as well. I will say, those numbers surprised me. LOL. I’m such a number’s nut. It’s like I’m some kind of hockey nut who is saying “Sure, I hate the Leafs, but I have to appreciate how good their forwards are” (just a hypothetical example. Everybody knows the Leafs blow. LOL)./

But, if they had released à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  last week and it sold the same numbers as it did during ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s debut week, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  would have been number 2. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s nothing to sneeze at either. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  sold more than all those à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“power playersà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  who released this week with the exception of TIà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s newest song.

How much someone sells in a week is partially dependent on who else is charting. None of us can know whether T.I’s presence helped or detracted from Christina A or whether an artist like Nickelback helped or hurt DC. There is, however, one thing I am certain about. If you are at the #1 spot on iTUNES for a whole week, people are going to check.you.out…a lot. They’ll even go to UTube, listen to your song, try to figure out why other people like it so much and maybe even purchase it! I’m sure people did that with the T.I song, Rihanna’s Disturbia, DCs TOML and Archie’s Crush. So I don’t think it is accurate to assume that Christina’s numbers would not have been higher any other week or Archie’s numbers would not have been lower this past week. Oops…I just realized that Michelle is saying something similar (sort of)! This thing took me long enough to type so I’m submitting it anyway!

Disclaimer: I think Archie’s numbers are phenomenal…I’m just trying to explain why people keep raising the issue of competition as a factor. I still think that trying to compare LO to Crush is a moot issue.

It’s like the convo every year about comparing coronation single sales…different years, different market conditions, different formats…it’s impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions and IMO only serves to stir up fanwars.

Finally, the respective competition issue has been addressed many times. LO was up against the new releases of all the power players you mentioned. Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only major new release competition was Demi Lovato. If you look at the Itunes sales figures between then and now, youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll see the only week that Crush would have held the top spot was the week it came out (good timing, Jive).

But, if they had released “Crush” last week and it sold the same numbers as it did during it’s debut week, “Crush” would have been number 2. That’s nothing to sneeze at either. “Crush” sold more than all those “power players” who released this week with the exception of TI’s newest song.

“Crush” had good debut numbers, IMO. It’s not like he had the number 1 album in January when it only takes 60K to get number 1. Or that he topped the Hot Singles chart by selling 782 CD singles. IMO, his numbers would be good in any week. IMO, its achievement needs no asterik.

“Light On” has good numbers too, especially considering the lack of airplay. Anything over 100K is notable.

So Crush had 7M and LO had 1.9M audience impression going into sales week. Should it really make the difference between 166k and 109k? What about all the emails sent for LO? What about all the big ads in iTunes? They should more than make up for the audience impression. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy the competition is tough for LO. Christina, Nickelback, Pink are tough competition, but they all sold less than 166k the first week for LO. TOML sold 236k in four days.

Edit: Bingo. DON’T question the motives of your fellow posters.

Now to your points. Your audience impression numbers are off. According to updated Mediabase figures, as of 10/3, LO’s media impression was only 1.2M. Recall that it dropped on 9/30, so it was likely below 1M when it came out. (And I believe Crush’s numbers were at 7.6M when it came out, thanks to the Z-100 premiere and the extra week of airplay.) As of yesterday, LO was still only at 2.0M, and obviously if people haven’t heard a song, they aren’t going to buy it. In other words, once you’ve exhausted your existing fan purchases, audience impression numbers are EVERYTHING. Having your song be heard is paramount.

Regarding, the emails, the Itunes ones were only sent to people who had bought TOML, so most of them would have bought LO already or else were probably the easy-listening crowd among whom TOML had become a hit, and a good many of them would have experienced a culture-shock when they heard LO after hearing TOML and needless to say weren’t going to buy it. And as for the Amazon emails, Amazon is only responsible for about 5% – 10% of all mp3 sales.

Finally, the respective competition issue has been addressed many times. LO was up against the new releases of all the power players you mentioned. Crush’s only major new release competition was Demi Lovato. If you look at the Itunes sales figures between then and now, you’ll see the only week that Crush would have held the top spot was the week it came out (good timing, Jive).

Now having said all that, I think it’s entirely possible that Archie has a larger core fanbase than Cook at this point. There was a strong sense during the season that Cook had “broader” (in terms of numbers) support, but Archie had “deeper” support (in terms of intensity). In other words, Archie had a greater number of ultra-passionate fans whereas Cook was ultimately carried over the top by casual fans.

So some of Cook’s more casual fans would have forgotten about him as soon as the season was over– out of sight, out mind, to put it another way. Another factor is that Cook’s fanbase was far more disorganized. Prior to the launch of his official site, there was no central “hub” for Cook fans. Nineteen did a piss-poor job running both Davids’ Myspaces, but from what I understand of Archie fandom, Fanblast served and serves as the primary hub for his fans, as Castrocopia does for Jason Castro fans.

On the Cook front, you had one site claiming it was his official fan site, but in actuality, Cook fan sites popped up left and right and fans went here, there, and everywhere. And some likely got lost in the shuffle.

One of the purposes, I think, of the banners you are starting to see popping up advertising Cook’s album (not his single) is to try to gather the disparate Cook fans from the season and remind them about him. We’ll see how well RCA can do this by 11/18.

I am not trying to make a competition, but I am still wondering what audience impression is and how it is determined.

Survey company like Arbitron determines the following (all the numbers are made up):
Station A averages 100,000 listeners between the hours of 4-6 pm (drive home) and 5,000 listeners between the hours of 1-5 am (overnight)
Station B averages 25,000 listeners between the hours of 4-6 pm and 1,000 listeners between the hours of 2-4 am

Monitoring company like Mediabase determines the following during a 1 week period (all the numbers are made up):
Station A played Artist X 5 times during the drive home and 10 times during the overnight period.
Station A played Artist Z 1 time during the drive home and 23 times during the overnight perod
Station B played Artist X 7 times during the drive hom and 2 times during the overnight period.
Station B played Artist Z 7 times during the drive home and 43 times during the overnight period.

Spin Counts (imagine the commas are plus signs, pluses are eaten by the blog):
Artist X: 5, 10, 7, 2= 24
Artist Z: 1, 23, 7, 43=74

Audience Impressions (number of times non-unique listeners heard the song):
Artixt X: 5*100K, 10*5K, 7*25K, 2*1K= 727K
Artist Z: 1*100K, 23*5K, 7*25K, 43*1K=433K

So, Artist Z got spun more times, but more listeners heard Artist X (although, some of those might be the same listeners every day, but hearing a song multiple times helps too). AI “rewards” artists who get played more frequently on larger stations and during periods of time when there are more listeners.

It’s a lot easier for the labels to get artists to be spun overnight, but it means more to get them spun during the drive home. Each time slot has been surveyed to find the average number of listeners.

The drop of Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song is abnormal. First, the other new releases from last week are still in top 20. Second, it is dropping too fast. It took Crush one week to drop out of top 10, and another week to drop to 24 before it went back up.
….So Crush had 7M and LO had 1.9M audience impression going into sales week. Should it really make the difference between 166k and 109k? What about all the emails sent for LO? What about all the big ads in iTunes? They should more than make up for the audience impression. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy the competition is tough for LO. Christina, Nickelback, Pink are tough competition, but they all sold less than 166k the first week for LO. TOML sold 236k in four days……..

To be honest, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see anything abnormal about the drop. The only thing unusual is that Cook’s LO chart debut was very high for a new artist, and we have his devoted fans from American Idol to thank for that. A 1.9M audience impression for airplay is sadly quite low, so ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a pretty good explanation for his subsequent drop in the charts. Once LO gets more airplay and the music video comes out, the song will move up in the charts again. I think that if your name isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t synonymous with à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Britneyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , and you have not been heard on the radio, you will chart low. I also donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think the iTunes and Amazon e-mails were that helpful since they mainly targeted the AI crowd (although they did serve to create the illusion that he was being well-marketed).

I could offer a variety of suggestions for why Crush is currently doing better but I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s irrelevant (and I have a hard time even caring). Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s like wondering why a song by Kanye West or Pink charted higher than a song by Foo Fighters or Jason Mraz . IMO, all of these artist are very good at what they do, but the music genres and target audiences are just too different to compare realistically.

Just for the record, being up against T.I/Rihanna, Pink, Christina Aguilera and Nickelback, all at the peak of their sales sounds like a new artist’s worst nightmare. Those guys are still charting high because they are very popular, well-established artists. They may not have made over 166,000 in their first week but almost two weeks have passed and they are still sitting very comfortably in the top ten. I’m hoping that a year from now, Cook and Archie will be able to do the same.