I have a kind of strong suspicion that she could do non-angsty rock, country-flavored ballads, and a whole lot more, if she felt like it,

But didn’t she kind of do that unsuccessfully with Reba? :ponder_tb:

My problem is if she goes and embraces ‘her artistry’  again for her 5th album (if she has one), we’ll get My January – nothing new. But in her mind it will be okay because she had all the say.

Well, if she gets into a contract where she takes more of the risk, like an indie contract, then there wouldn’t be anything the matter with that, as far as I can see.

Artists and performers have to grow and change to get longevity anyway, and I suspect it’s darned near impossible to grow and change as a performer without having some foul-ups, mistakes, and missteps along the way. How many people who’ve made 30 or 40 albums haven’t had some stinkers in there or at least some that were very much liked by a niche audience but not by the public at large (which is more the My December story, in my opinion.) (And do we really know that Kelly has nothing new in her besides My December? I have a kind of strong suspicion that she could do non-angsty rock, country-flavored ballads, and a whole lot more, if she felt like it, and maybe she would!)

Anyway, the only problem with doing the small-selling album in the case of most major-label contracts (I guess some are structured differently) is that the label will get furious at you because they stand to be the bigger losers if you don’t have a gazillion-selling album. .. Plus, the days of the gazillion-selling album seem to be getting ever farther behind us, so it’s quite possible that new forms of music distribution will be opening up that will give disgruntled pop princesses and others more options for what to do anyway, especially the ones who already have enough money to last a lifetime, like Kelly.

i really dont hear the similarities and
being as cynical as i am

controversy sells ?

Could be. But it could also be that, if you’re a musician and the person singing the song, the similarities would sound quite glaring to you, even though they might not occur to people who aren’t so familiar with it. … Kelly being Kelly, I think this is more likely. I don’t get the impression that she causes controversies for cash but that she basically just blunders into controversies because she’s kind of an impetuous and maybe cranky person, who hasn’t felt really satisfied with her music career for a while now. Who knows, though, of course?

controversy sells ?

When Kelly put out My December, she said she needed it for herself, which I agree because Breakaway had been a monster album after all, so why not let the girl decide on her own on the next cd. Again, I still believe that My December is among the top 10 best albums this decade but I won’t go into details because it’s just too tiring. lol At one point she said that she’d allow the record label to have their way on her fourth album if they’d let her have MD. So there you go, I believe that AIEW is a bit of compromise with the label and you can’t fault her for that, she’s just honoring her words.

Maybe it’s calculated risk since at her age of 27 – she’s not too old to veer away from the pop world yet. She’d have a lot opportunities to do indie music later on if she so decides. She’s just making the most of her young age which is already teetering towards the point where pop may already be awkward for her. She’s been saying a lot lately how she would like to do blues album or partner with White Stripes which may be a hint that she’d want to take that risk again on her 5th album. You see, timing is everything and she has brilliantly laid out her career path in a way that would allow her to do everything at least once in her lifetime.

I definitely want her to part ways with RCA already… and I’m not sure she even has to go indie even after that. I’m sure there are a lot of other labels out there willing to give her a home, she still has a pretty big name after all. Hopefully she finds a label where she can make the music she really wants to make.

But whatever happens or does not happen to Kelly’s career after this, it doesn’t change the fact that Ryan Tedder seems to be a one trick pony and Kelly’s words has somehow served as a warning to other artists who want their stuff to be unique, to steer clear of Ryan Tedder.

Well, I appreciate that we are debating something other than Glambert vs. Kris/Danny/whatever.

I actually want the best for Kelly. I think she’s probably the Idol winner that I would like the most if I met her. I just think that if the problem is really with the label, she should keep it there. I wouldn’t care who the songwriter was… Tedder or Stargate.

As for the song… trashing your own song is not a good way to generate sales. LOL. She may not care about the money. Another reason to show some guts and strike out on her own. I’d be interested in what she would do with that.

If she doesn’t like them, well, she has choices.

Yea she has, and she chose to speak out against Ryan and her label. If they drop her or cut off her promo, then that’s a chance she chose to take.

But whatever happens or does not happen to Kelly’s career after this, it doesn’t change the fact that Ryan Tedder seems to be a one trick pony and Kelly’s words has somehow served as a warning to other artists who want their stuff to be unique, to steer clear of Ryan Tedder.

No one is denying the songs are similar. The same? No. Perhaps we should hire the peeps who decided the Vanilla Ice/David Bowie/Queen case.

Of course the two songs are not the SAME, they have different lyrics. But the beats and the backing track is the same and that is just as important part of the song as the lyrics, IMO. Especially in pop music.

ETA: And yeah, I’m not sure went down with her and Ryan, but human nature dictates he wouldn’t have posted hastily if he hadn’t been blind sighted. Perhaps she called him and they worked it out and now she’s going all apeshit? Note she didn’t say what his response was or how it was resolved.

No one seems to be showing Kelly any professional courtesy

Hmmm exactly. I don’t know why Kelly is expected to show professional courtesy to a guy who basically pulled a fast one on her.

And of course the similarities will not be obvious to everyone, but a lot of people do hear it…. when Kelly’s album first leaked, that was one of the first things I noticed, I think I even posted it here in MJ’s before. And most importantly, the artist who has to have her name attached to the song hears it.

ETA: Haha yep I wasn’t imagining it, I did post it, I found it in the comments section HERE

And she had talked to Ryan before about the subject, so he wasn’t completely blindsided. He probably brushed her off, from what I gather.

This too.

I think if she were going to go public with allegations against him, she could have afforded him some warning. Professional courtesy.

No one seems to be showing Kelly any professional courtesy, especially not the people on her label. Or was Clive Davis’ hate campaign professional courtesy? Making her do this saccharine apology album– and then not letting her choose even her third single–?

Honestly, I think the interviewer brought the topic off and Kelly, being an impetuous person, just said what came to mind. And she had talked to Ryan before about the subject, so he wasn’t completely blindsided. He probably brushed her off, from what I gather.

Yes, she could’ve given Ryan more warning, but frankly that’s the least important aspect of this whole deal. Ryan could’ve given her warning that he was giving Beyonce the same backing track.

Anyway, I think if Ryan didn’t want to be called out in public.. he should’ve given Kelly the same professional courtesy and told her, ‘oh hey one of those songs I made for your album has exactly the same backing track as the one I gave Beyonce. Hope that’s cool with you.’  Unprofessionalism begets unprofessionalism.

Unless it’s an industry standard, which it seems to be (Stargate, anyone?). It sounds like Kelly got her track first, and then it went to Beyonce, if this is all true. I personally hear as many or more similarities in other songs than these two, by different writers, so I think this seems like Kelly being insecure and not able to express it in a more productive way.

Besides, two wrongs don’t make a right.

What does Jay-Z have to do with Chris Brown?

OT: he’s Rihanna’s mentor. And I think he did do something about Chris Brown, I read from a twitter of Chris Brown’s back up dancer that the reason Chris didn’t get to take part in BET Awards’ tribute to MJ is because Jay-Z didn’t want him to.

Anyway, I think if Ryan didn’t want to be called out in public.. he should’ve given Kelly the same professional courtesy and told her, “oh hey remember one of those songs I made for your album, I’m giving Beyonce the exact same backing track to use for one of her songs in an album that will be released before yours. Hope that’s cool with you.” Unprofessionalism begets unprofessionalism.

Plus, if Jay Z were really so powerful, why didn’t he act or speak out against Chris Brown?

What does Jay-Z have to do with Chris Brown? I think he was right to leave it up to the legal system. But I guess this is OT.

ETA: I also believe Ryan Tedder was blindsighted by the Kelly stuff. I think his initial blog was proof of that. Seemed to me like it was an hones knee-jerk reaction, which of course, was removed by those who know better. LOL. I think if she were going to go public with allegations against him, she could have afforded him some warning. Professional courtesy. If I acted that way at work, I would be HATED. LOL.

Anyway, Kelly sounds a little insecure to me about the song, and that’s too bad, because I think it’s better than “Halo” and I don’t think she would have gotten a bad rap like she seems to think.

That being said, I have no idea about “My December” and I don’t think that’s an issue with this song. People keep bringing it up as if it is relevant to this? I will say she doesn’t seem to like or respect her own music… not a good sign for the fans of that music or her future with her label.

I think she’s too scared to go indie, because she doesn’t have faith in her own abilities without other songwriters. I can’t blame her. You can admire something and not be able to create it yourself. Maybe she should take that jump and find out.

The Beyonce rumors aren’t her fault.

This.

She expressly said that she didn’t want to release Already Gone IN RESPECT FOR BEYONCE’“ making it clear that she doesn’t blame Beyonce for what happened

Agreed. I don’t think she ever came off as blaming Beyonce. to me at least. she thinks it was Tedder’s fault, and it was.

Plus, if Jay Z were really so powerful, why didn’t he act or speak out against Chris Brown?

hardkandy Jul 29th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

Yea maybe it’s not safe to mouth off on Ryan and her record label but whatever’ ¦ it’s not like every time AG is played on the radio the DJ will say ‘this is a song produced by Ryan Tedder in the label RCA sung by Kelly Clarkson’  ‘ ¦ they will say ‘this is Already Gone by Kelly Clarkson’  – it’s her name attached to this song and she owes it to herself to clear up any thoughts that she had ripped Beyonce off. Definitely, Ryan Tedder needed to have it.

pj Jul 30th, 2009 at 12:09 am

I don’t mind it when Idols talk smack. But in this case, I don’t think the songs are enough alike for Kelly to be causing a stir. Especially when it involves other artists and their integrity. I don’t remember Iggy Pop getting all bent out of shape over the band Jet having the same track as ‘Lust for Life.’  Kelly is worried about her integrity, perhaps, but that’s the problem. I don’t think this would have been a big deal to the casual listener if she hadn’t spoken up.
To preserve herself, she tossed another artist under the bus. One, who I believe, did nothing wrong. That’s not a way to make friends in the industry.

She needs to clear up the Beyonce rumors that were started because of her interview. If Beyonce continues to be cast in a bad light I feel sorry for her because Jay-Z will jump into the middle of it. Try going independent if he is against you – good luck with that. He is considered one of the most powerful men in the music business and makes Clive Davis look like a kitten compared to him.

I don’t own any Kelly albums. I think she’s a great singer. But she was on AI way before I thought about watching it. I didn’t like the idea of “manufacturing a pop star” so I shunned the show at first. LOL.

I know Kelly can sing. I haven’t bought any of her albums because I really haven’t been interested. Her singles are fine, but not music I want to hear other than on the radio. I need to check out My December, but “Never Again” was just alright for me.

‘I think it’d be awesome to work with the White Stripes. Even though I don’t know if they would, because that’d be’ ¦’  Clarkson trails off, laughing. ‘Even if I’m a fan of theirs, their credibility factor would waver a bit.

Jack White will work with pop stars. He doesn’t care what people think of him. He has to be interested in them, though. I didn’t care for what he did with Alicia Keys. But he was off the charts with Loretta Lynn. And I’m not sure Meg has a lot of credibility except for her rudimentary drumming (which works well for the WS). Jack, however, is a genius.

I don’t mind it when Idols talk smack. But in this case, I don’t think the songs are enough alike for Kelly to be causing a stir. Especially when it involves other artists and their integrity. I don’t remember Iggy Pop getting all bent out of shape over the band Jet having the same track as “Lust for Life.” Kelly is worried about her integrity, perhaps, but that’s the problem. I don’t think this would have been a big deal to the casual listener if she hadn’t spoken up. To preserve herself, she tossed another artist under the bus. One, who I believe, did nothing wrong. That’s not a way to make friends in the industry.

Then Breakaway came out. The singles release was catchy and refreshing, there weren’t many female pop-rock at that time. At it signalled some level of growth and maturity on her side – going slightly rock while maintaining her pop roots. I don’t follow her music details carefully, and know nothing bout her manager or the AI shun at that period. I was going to buy the album, but happened to win it in a contest and I loved it.

Her 3rd album, My December didn’t do anything for me. I didn’t like Never Again – it came off to me as trying too hard, and at that time there were quite a number of female rockers eg. Evanescence (yes, they’re different but I can’t recall the other one-hit wonders right now). And the second single, Sober was extremely boring to me that I changed the channel each time I hear it. It fell off MTV pretty quickly, and never caught on in radio airplay. And I DIDN’T even knew of the Clive-Kelly spat.

I’m just getting pretty tired how folks are saying My December was a great album/got burned by RCA/public was stupid etc. Well, I didn’t know bout Kelly back then as I do now, and I still wasn’t inclined to like the singles from it. Point is, she took a an artistic risk and it failed. The songs were rocker wannabe or snoozefest to me. Perhaps she could have released other songs on the album that were better/catchier. But the ones she released didn’t make me inclined to check out My December and I lost interest in her. Compare this to Christina Aguilera – the songs released were catchy and sparked interest. They didn’t do as well as her old singles, but did pretty well and generated enough interest in her album

Now for Kelly’s 4th album. I hated both her first singles at first, too dance-processed-pop-Katy-Perryish to me. But I have to admit they were catchy. I wasn’t fully aware of the Kelly-label thing, but she lost a lot of credibility to me. It was like she tried to went hard rock and failed, and now she’s succumbing to these radio-friendly processed pop songs. I was turned off and it didn’t make me inclined to check out her album.

When I buy an album, I’m taking a risk as I’m buying some songs which I’ve never heard before (old CD-buyer here). So I base my decisions on what I can hear (singles released) and the artist credibility. To me Kelly failed me on both factors for her 3rd and current album. Simple as that, regardless of what I now know of her label spat etc.

And considering that Already Gone is so much better, I think this controversy might help in sales.

That’s probably true today. But I don’t know that young artists realize it. After all, there’s no reason why pop can’t have artistic values rather than 100,000 percent commercial ones as it does. Prince is pop. Madonna is pop. Cyndi Lauper is pop. Sinatra was pop. And tons of other quite interesting and respectable performers over the years. And you surely can’t argue that their careers were shaped *entirely* by commercial values, as it seems a pop singer’s is supposed to be now, if I’m hearing everybody right.

Does it really *have* to be that way, or are the mega corporations just so worried about losing their billionaire world dominance as the music world changes so they’re trying even harder than in the past just to repeat the formulas that worked for them?

Whatever the answer, I don’t think Kelly fits this scenario. And, heck, she’s getting too old to really be a pop princess any more anyway, given the way pop music is structured now. You get considered long in the tooth by your mid 20s, in most cases, and she’s there now. She really should just get out of thta contract and do something else. She seems not to be happy.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this quote, but it just makes me sad that she’s comparing herself unfavorably to the White Stripes. She doesn’t seem happy with her musical identity.

Whether she admits it or not, it’s obvious that AIEW is a compromise of some sort. The public is to be blamed for not allowing her to grow as an artist. It’s like she’s a step forward, only to take two steps backward. I can’t wait to hear Kelly doing music that she truly loves and we know it’s only gonna happen when she’s out of a big commercial record company.